War, Fort Hood Massacre, & Ungrateful Americans
War, Fort Hood Massacre, & Ungrateful Americans
The following editorial by Max Cleland speaks volumes about vets that return home from war to America. Max says the authorities can’t tell us why Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan went on that shooting rampage at Fort Hood, Texas. Let me venture a reason. Maj. Nidal Malik did not want to be deployed to the war because he did not want to be responsible for directly killing his Muslim brothers and sisters. I have great sympathy and compassion for the people the Major killed, maimed and traumatized. My heart aches for the families affected by the Major’s errant behavior. And in no way should someone try to interpret my words as support or an attempt to justify the Major’s behavior. His behavior was definitely inappropriate. Yet, the validity of my ventured reason for the Major’s behavior must still be addressed. Let me push the issue.
Is it fair to ask an American Muslim to kill other Muslims for an unjust war in Iraq or Afghanistan? Let me state it another way. Can America expect an Italian to go fight an unjust war for America in Italy? Would it be good American policy to even expect an Italian to fight a just war for America in Italy? What kind of Italian would go to Italy and kill his/her kinfolk, which might mean killing father, mother, brother, sister, etc. because the Italian is in America’s military and its America’s policy to fight a war with Italy? On a more personal tip, why would veterans go to war to come home to be treated like Max delineates in the article below? on November 7, 2009 the United States House of Representatives supported President Obama’s desire to reform healthcare here in America. This is a historical vote. It shows the President, most democratic representatives, and one republican wants America to be more concerned about the health of the least of these. John Marshall and I support the President’s position. Because we suppost the President’s position on healthcare reform Jayson calls us “buffoons and traitors.” Why did John and I go to war to fight for ungrateful people like Jayson? We fought so that he would remain free. And in Jason’s words because we fought in Vietnam and now support the House of Representatives passage of a bill that reforms healthcare so the least of these can have health insurance we are both “buffoons and traitors.” Lord help us today.
My question becomes even more critical especially when we understand that Jayson has not fired one bullet in defense of this country. Jayson, your only fight for this country has been to fight for your wealth after the expenditure of the lives of veterans like John and me. We come home to be called out of our names by people like you!! You are truly an ungrateful American and a poor patriot. I pray this is not your intent but I am not sure. You cause this veteran to ask “Why did I fight for you? You didn’t support me then and all though you can, you won’t support me now.”
Jayson, I am trying to help you see the big picture of your words. I am sure that there is no danger of John, and surely not I, expressing our dislike for being called out of our name in the way that the Major and other vets have done. Rachel Madow does an excellent history on recent veteran behavior that is much like the behavior expressed by the Major. Check it out.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#33706402
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#33706450
War takes a toll on the warrior. Imagine being commanded to go to where you live in Carmel and to take up arms and kill your family and friends because it is United States policy. Or imagine being ordered to go to Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. and going even though you do not support or agree with the policy but you go anyway because you are a good American. To do what one thinks is wrong in order to be seen as patriotic to one’s country causes wars within the warriors’ mind. After fighting those unjust wars then to be disrespected by the very people who you fought for can trigger than war in the vet’s head to go to war where he/she presently finds themselves. Yes, Jayson, veterans live close to you and all of us. War takes a toll on those that go and those that don’t. Two of those people killed at Fort Hood were civilians. “War is good for absolutely nothing. War is a friend only to the undertaker.” Love is the tool to conquer hate. That is why President Obama needs to begin to reduce troops in these wars, not escalate troops as insubordinate General McChrystal would have him to do. Jayson, read Max’s words below. You will see that it’s you of whom he speaks. You truly should support this ministry by clicking on the “donate” button to the right of this page. Help increase the love and decrease the hate. Thank you for listening to AjabuSpeaks. Copy write (11/8/2009)
'When we are at war, America spends billions on missiles, tanks, attack helicopters and such. But the wounded warriors who will never fight again tend to be put on the back burner'.
'This is inexcusable, and it comes with frightening moral costs.'
'Veterans returning today represent the first real influx of combat-wounded soldiers in a generation. They are returning to a nation unprepared for what war does to the soul. Those new veterans will need all of our help.'
New York Times
November 7, 2009
Op-Ed Contributor
The Forever War of the Mind
By Max Cleland
“EVERY day I was in Vietnam, I thought about home. And, every day I’ve been home, I’ve thought about Vietnam”, So said one of the millions of soldiers who fought there as I did. Change the name of the battlefield and it could have been said by one of the American servicemen coming home from Iraq or Afghanistan today. Wars are not over when the shooting stops. They live on in the lives of those who fight them. That is the curse of the soldier. He never forgets.
While the authorities say they cannot yet tell us why an Army psychiatrist would go on a shooting rampage at Fort Hood in Texas, we do know the sorts of stories he had been dealing with as he tried to help those returning from Iraq and Afghanistan readjust to life outside the war zone. A soldier’s mind can be just as dangerous to himself, and to those around him, as wars fought on traditional battlefields.
War is haunting. Death. Pain. Blood. Dismemberment. A buddy dying in your arms. Imagine trying to get over the memory of a bomb splitting a Humvee apart beneath your feet and taking your leg with it. The first time I saw the stilled bodies of American soldiers dead on the battlefield is as stark and brutal a memory as the one of the grenade that ripped off my right arm and both legs.
No, the soldier never forgets. But neither should the rest of us.
Veterans returning today represent the first real influx of combat-wounded soldiers in a generation. They are returning to a nation unprepared for what war does to the soul. Those new veterans will need all of our help. After America’s wars, the used-up fighters are too often left to fend for themselves. Many of the hoboes in the Depression were veterans of World War I. When they came home, they were labeled shell-shocked and discharged from the Army too broken to make it during the economic cataclysm.
So it is again, with too many stories about veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan ending up unemployed and homeless. Figures from the Department of Veterans Affairs show that 131,000 of the nation’s 24 million veterans are homeless each night, and about twice that many will spend part of this year homeless.
We know of the recent failures at Walter Reed Medical Center, where soldiers were stranded in substandard barracks infested with rats while awaiting treatment. I was in Walter Reed myself at that time seeking counseling for post-traumatic stress disorder, which, ignited by a barrage of Iraq headlines and the loss of my United States Senate seat, had simply consumed me.
I never saw it coming. Forty years after I had left the battlefield, my memories of death and wounding were suddenly as fresh and present as they had been in 1968. I thought I was past that. I learned that none of us are ever past it. Were it not for the surgeons and nurses at Walter Reed, I never would have survived those first months back from Vietnam. Were it not for the counselors there today, I do not think I would have survived what I’ve come to call my second Vietnam, the one that played out entirely in my mind.
When I was wounded, post-traumatic stress disorder did not officially exist. It was recognized as a legitimate illness only in 1978, during my tenure as head of the Veterans Administration under President Jimmy Carter. Today, it is not only recognized, but the Army and the V.A. know how to treat it. I can offer no better testament than my own recovery.
Weeks before the troubles at Walter Reed became public in 2007, my counselor put it to me simply. “We are drowning in war” she said. The problems at Walter Reed had nothing to do with the dedicated doctors and nurses there. The problems had to do with the White House and Congress and the Department of Defense. The problems had to do with money.
When we are at war, America spends billions on missiles, tanks, attack helicopters and such. But the wounded warriors who will never fight again tend to be put on the back burner.
This is inexcusable, and it comes with frightening moral costs. There are estimates that 35 percent of the soldiers who fought in Iraq will suffer post-traumatic stress disorder. I’m sure the numbers for Afghanistan are similar. Researchers have found that nearly half of those returning with the disorder have suicidal thoughts. Suicide among active-duty soldiers is on pace to hit a record total this year. More than 1.7 million soldiers have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Imagine that some 600,000 of them will have crippling memories, trapped in a vivid and horrible past from which they can’t seem to escape.
We have a family Army today, unlike the Army seen in any generation before. We have fought these wars with the Reserves and the National Guard. Fathers, mothers, soccer coaches and teachers are the soldiers coming home. Whether they like it or not, they will bring their war experiences home to their families and communities.
In his poem “The Dead Young Soldiers” Archibald MacLeish, whose younger brother died in World War I, has the soldiers in the poem tell us: “We leave you our deaths. Give them their meaning.” Until we help our returning soldiers get their lives back when they come home, the promise of restoring that meaning will go unfulfilled.
Max Cleland, the secretary of the American Battle Monuments Commission, was a Democratic senator from Georgia from 1997 to 2003. He is the author, with Ben Raines, of “Heart of a Patriot: How I Found the Courage to Survive Vietnam, Walter Reed and Karl Rove.”
Rev. Ajabu
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My immediate thought upon reading the accounts of the returned warriors via Max Cleland and Rev. Ajabu of Indianapolis......
anyone who wishes our nation into war which is NOT in defence of our SOIL, must have a brain disorder of these qualities;
Ultra right wing Christian Zionist
Neocon hawk
Own stock in arms producers
Compassionless subhuman (same thing as Zombi)
I don't know what "right" and "left" mean anymore other than the undisputable fact that both mean bigger, more intrusive government, and endless wars.
You can't make this a political party thing; both sides are owned and operated by the same people, and they utimately do the same things to people all over the world.
We're too quick to see enemies and too slow to embrace allies. But mostly, we're too quick to attack when we don't any longer remember what we're defending.
With our liberties gone and our politicians in control, we have already jumped from the cliff, and what comes next is only a matter of distance and a little time.
I happen to agree that war is devastating. I have worked with returning soldiers. I have worked in the streets with soldiers who have not been right since returning home. I work with numerous veteran's groups. Anyone who has worked a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter knows that many of the people who are there are veterans.
Unfortunately, war exists. Evil exists and must sometimes be fought. When Kuwait was invaded by Iraq, I believe we were right to go help. When Hitler was devastating Europe and commiting genocide, I believe we were right to get involved. War existed in the Bible. God absolutely sanctioned it. Lots can be said about whether or not individual actions on behalf of the US are or have been "just" or not. I do not proclaim to be an expert. I find it strange that anyone feels so much clarity where war is concerned. So often, there is merit on both sides. To think anyone throws the lives of our military into conflict without heavy consideration is ridiculous. I do believe that every time you are engaged in an action there will be people who will be grateful, and potentially, generations who will be forever angered. Going to war requires prayer and contemplation and lots of good advice. I think it is our job to pray for our leaders and for their wisdom.
I think it is far to early to discuss what happened in Ft. Hood. We do not know enough about this shooter yet to draw any conclusions. If he was, in fact, simply overcome with the horror of serving our troops with psychiatric trauma in battle in a war against people of his faith, I think he should have been allowed to stay in the US, serving soldiers from home. But this man was not asked to yield a gun. He was a man who received a medical education from his country and was indebted to pay it back....as a psychiatrist. He had been trying to get out of the service without having repaid his debt for years. He wasn't just not wanting to go overseas. He wanted out of the service.
I do think that a person who goes into the service these days who does not think that he might be involved in an action that relates to the middle east is a little foolish.
You don't have the right to "use" the military for your purposes and not fulfill your duty. The military offers wonderful opportunities to many young people...but at a huge price. It is a heavy tradeoff, buy many many young people have believed their military service was a positive experience in building their character and in providing them with an education. This is a volunteer military, after all.
In the end, I think that this topic is premature. There is too much we still need to learn.
There are people who believe that the evidence indicates that although this man was not part of a concerted terrorist group, he WAS clearly involved with people who were highly supportive of terrorist activities against our military. He may not have simply been the traumatized conscientious objector that you are presenting, Reverend, but rather, a combatant. We really just do not know that yet.
I do know that I am praying for the Major, I am praying for the soldiers and civilians who were injured, for the families of the killed, for the leaders on the base and the young men and women who have been traumatized by the tragedy, for our military leaders in general, and for our President and for other world leaders.
May God's will be done. May we all gain wisdom from this tragedy.
I think that where war is concerned, far too many people "think" they have all the answers.
History has proven that very few of us have MANY of the answers. Most of the time, we don't even seem to know the questions.
I just know that I am grateful that these decisions do not lie in my hands.
While we all grieve for the victims from the unimaginably tragic loss of life due to the senseless acts of violence at Ft. Hood, Texas on Thursday we thought it is important for you to read the following statements put out by local Muslim groups:
From Muslim Alliance of Indiana:
We at the Muslim Alliance of Indiana along with Muslim Hoosiers across the state would like to express our deep shock and regret over the tragic incidents in Fort Hood Texas. As American Muslims, we are terribly saddened and hurt by the cruel and unthinking loss of life experienced by those that are fighting for our nation. The soldiers of Fort Hood represent those that are giving most to protect our country and we grieve with them for their loss today.
We also want to reiterate that Islam never condones violence and as Muslims we are deeply revolted by the actions of the shooter. At no point should the dastardly acts of the shooter be considered an expression of the Islamic faith or Muslims both of whom unequivocally and wholeheartedly condemn this act. We ask that the perpetrators be punished to the fullest extent of the law. We urge Muslim Hoosiers to come forward and help military families in this, their time of need. As Muslim Hoosiers we are proud of our soldiers and the incredible sacrifices they make for our country.
For further information please contact
Shariq Siddiqui 317-716-0744 or Rafia Zakaria 317-407-2351
From the Nur-Allah Islamic Center
The Nur-Allah Islamic Center is saddened by the recent tragic incidents that transpired in Detroit, Michigan involving Imam Luqman Abdullah (Wednesday October 28, 2009), and the disastrous tragedy at Fort Hood in Texas involving army Major Malik Hasan (Thursday November 05, 2009). Avoiding undue speculations while we await reports from the investigators still our hearts and souls are troubled and saddened. We pray that G_d’s peace and mercy be upon our soldiers who lost their lives. We are praying for and mourning with their families and our nation. Our prayers are with all of the families touched by these hurtful events.
This is a very difficult time for we the citizens of America. We believe in the words of G_d that states, “With every difficulty there is relief.” This is a time for people of faith to unite, seeking strength from one another and maintaining the peace that our faith calls us to. G_d instructs humanity to save life, not the destruction of life. Our prayer is that we join with each other to fulfill this special plea.
Our religion, as that of the other world religions, is based upon peace and obligates us to live and promote peace. We pray that our American society does not see these actions as religious-based; rather they see such misdeeds as acts borne by individuals acting outside of the high values of faith.
The collective Muslim communities of Indiana have clearly demonstrated our commitment to living and preserving the best of America for all Americans. This will continue to be our goal both as Americans and as Muslims. We pray that G_d bless America and He also bless the world.
Michael “Mikal” Saahir
Resident Imam
I heard these statements over the weekend and they were very healing.
This morning I enjoyed breakfast with an octagenarian born in Italy. He waited fourteen years for his turn at immigration although his father was American. When WW2 occured he enlisted in the U.S. Army at age eighteen, that's correct, only four years after coming to this country. His Italian was better than his English, he was deployed to the Italian front because of his language skills where he honorably fought against other Catholics forced into war by their facist leader. He fought for the adopted United States he loved, the finest country in the world.
Six years after immigrating from eastern Europe my grandfather and his uncle both in their early twenties enlisted to fight against the Kaiser. They did not fight against their former country, but they fought for their new country against Eatern Europeans.
By now you must see how feeble you thought pattern is. If you love this country it must be your primary country. If you put allegiance another country first, then go back to that country. The U.S. will get along fine without you. Our country prospered before all these unproductive losers came here.
Hasan's act was clearly terrorism; people like this justify capital punishment even to pro-lifers. His calling in Allah confirms it's terrorism pure and simple. As a Christian how can you condone such an action. If he did not desire to fight our enemies how could he take an oath to do so. He promised: "to fight our enemies, foreign and domestic; to obey the orders of the officers appointd over him; and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same."
You blew it on this call Rev. Abuja!!
Minister Ajabu,
I applaud you effort to bring to the attention the possible mental state of the shooter. You make no excuses for his behavior, but shed light on a possible motive. One of your commenters mentioned that this man had requested to be relieved of his duties. Others feel this man should fulfill his obligations in spite of his mixed emotions. I don't think anyone wants someone in a fox hole with him that may or may not cover your back.
Someone must help me understand the purpose of war, especially when America has not been attacked? Who profits from war? Certainly not the poor souls who for centuries have served as cannon fodder for the elites that decide to go to war, but often fail to fight it themselves.
You know my position on this issue: I have deep respect for any man or woman willing to put their lives on the line for a cause or country. I don't agree with war or killing, but I do have deep respect for those willing to die for what they believe in.
May the Kingdom come, that God's Will may be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Peace and love to you and yours, my brother. God help us all!
Mr. Barnard,
We do not all agree that we have not been attacked.Many of us still believe that we are under attack from radical Islam. It is becoming more apparent that this fragile man was influenced by hatemongers. Note I did not say Islam. My next door neighbors are Muslim and are immigrants from Pakistan who came to this country to escape radical Islam. They are lovely people whom I am proud to call friends. Reports from the FBI and CIA estimate that there is considerable militant activity in 3 out of 4 mosques in this country. I am encouraged that the local Imams are being quite forthright in their condemnation of this kind of activity. I hope that they are being as forthright among their congregations. This must stop. We must all work together to make it stop.
Why was he in the army why wasn't he over there fighting against the Americans. Why because he wanted the good life America afforded him and the safety. America is a multi-culture country and when you come here you are American or stay home and stop killing Americans in their own country if you can't be loyal a loyal American then you don't need to be here trying to destroy this country.
E.Sept,
To my understanding he was born here.
But his loyalty is certainly not American my grandson was born in Germany but he is an American and has fought for his country and considers himself American.
E. Sept.
Your point is well taken. I think it speaks to a number of people's point being made in response to this post. However, I think that you are missing my point. Many people that immigrate to this country do not denounce the family and friends they left in the country from which they immigrated in order to become citizens of this country. Yes, they took an oath of loyalty to this country, but that oath for many was not a denunciation of those family and friends that they left behind in their other country. There have been incidences of Israellit Americans spying on America for Israel. Let me see if this heightens understanding with the following: You live in Fishers, Indiana. Fishers residents do not like the fact that Noblesville residents have voted to annex Fishers. Fishers' residents refuse to pay taxes to Noblesville because they do not support being annexed. You are a member of the national guard. You are ordered to go to Fishers and with force make the residents of Fishers pay their taxes. You mother, wife, and children live in Fishers. Do you follow the order? Surely you would be conflicted. This example is a small scale of the picture that Major Hassan was dealing. Now don't get me wrong. I am not condoning Maj. Hassan's behavior. However, I am trying to understand it. If we do not have the courage to look at it head on then it is destined to be repeated. I am a decorated veteran. I have put my life on the line for America. I really am thinking seriously about organizing a prayer vigil for the families that were directly affected by this tragedy. Would all on this blog help get it organized? Still I can't run away from trying to understand the psychology that produced this tragedy at Fort Hood. I really think the solution to this tragedy is to study war no more. If the people in Iraq want to be free then the cost of their freedom should be their lives. The same for the people in Afghanistan. President Obama should bring our troops home. American lives should not be spent for others' freedom. It is really even questionable that we went into Iraq to secure the people of Iraq's freedom. That excusion looks like an attempt by the previous administration to satisfy America's oil habit. Iraq was not attacking us. We must learn to mind our own business and leave other people's business alone! We should support are warriors to come home and let others fight their own wars. Who on this blog is willing to help organize a commemoration for our soldiers. Isn't it funny that we haven't heard from Jayson the ungrateful American. We must support our veterans. We must! God bless.
Interesting argument other than the fact that we don't get much oil from Iraq.
I believe that the Bush administration thought Saddam Hussein was a threat. Unfortunately, as I read more about the situation, I believe that Iraq was trying to fake everyone out that they did have nukes because they were afraid of a nuclear Iran. The more I read, I have more compassion for Saddam Hussein. His posturing turned out to be a very bad mistake. It has cost all of us a lot. I don't think it helped anything that Saddam Hussein tried to assassinate Bush Senior. I would not be surprised if Junior had a grudge. I might have. Nobody has ever tried to assassinate my father. I don't know how that feels.
I don't think this war is just about other country's freedom....I think we are genuinely fighting elusive extremists. It isn't an easy fight, but it is real...because as we have seen, our free society has allowed them to live among us. I think the President knows it is real. And the threat from Iran grows every day...particularly as the Russians fan it. I am praying for his wisdom.
The world is a dangerous place. As a mother, my heart breaks for the mothers worldwide. Unfortunately pacifism is not always the right answer. I do think that the President is right to try to treat these other nations with respect and to try to create a new dialogue. I pray that there is a breakthrough every day.
But the constant assumption of bad intent on the part of our government is also not a good thing. I believe that most people are fighting for what they believe are good intentions.
I would certainly support a prayer vigil for our troops. I do think it is unfair, though, Reverend, for you to assume that Jayson does not love our country and our troops. He has a different perspective.
A wise management executive once said, "Seek first to understand...and then be understood."
F_ _ k ALL YOU TOWEL HEADS HAJI'S. . . JUST BE LUCKY WE DONT F _ _KIN BOMB ALL YOU ASS HOLES NOW. IF IT WAS UP TO ME WE WOULD TAKE OVER AND KEEP THE OIL TO US. ESPECIALLY AFTER 9/11. SO F _ _K YOU ALL. ROT AND DIE IN HELL.
This email was edited. Rev. A.
Rev. Ajabu
I was moved by your words about the shooting at Ft. Hood. As a VietnNam Veteran and a Minister in the CME Church I was surprised at your caritoristic of an American Soldier having reservation over fighting an enimy that shares a common haritage or ratial semilarities with an enimy that has attached us.
You stated (. Can America expect an Italian to go fight an unjust war for America in Italy? Would it be good American policy to even expect an Italian to fight a just war for America in Italy?)
In world war II they didn't worry about Italian Americans Fighting against Mussolini, or German Americans fighting against Hitler. or black americans fighting against Africans. Your argument only has one example of an individual race being put under suspicion and punished for their Racial makeup and that is the Japanese. in World War II. and everyone knows how wrong that was for the Japanese Americans who suffered under that persecution. You also asked (What kind of Italian would go to Italy and kill his/her kinfolk, which might mean killing father, mother, brother, sister, etc. because the Italian is in America’s military and its America’s policy to fight a war with Italy?) I present to you German, Russian, Japanese, and Italian Americans who were just as hurt by the unprovoked attach against out country by the cowardly fanaticism of Global conquest by Hitler, Mossolini, Stalin, and the Japanese Emperor.
Your argument seems week and somewhat prejudicial in a racial and a political since. You state that this is an unjust war we are fighting in Afghanistan and Iroc. You forget that the United States was attached by a Group that claims that it is implementing a Holy War against the United States and it's form of Government, in a totally unprovoked fashion. Even Jesus the Christ said that it is a sorry man that wont defend his own home. So why do you feel that the united States shouldn't fight back against an enemy who has tried several times to kill civilian American in Africa, the World Trade Center twice, the attach the USS Cole, Plus many other conspiracies that have been stopped because of our intelligence agencies. I don't see the logic of allowing a Bully like Osoma Binlauden to continue to try to destroy our nation and kill our people. When have you ever seen a bully stop being a bully by letting him to continue to push you around. The only way to stop a bully from praying on the weak is to hurt him as much or more that he hurts you. Show me one time a bully has stopped his persecution with any other method.
The problem with Mjr. Malik is the political correctness that allowed him to even be in the military of a Government that he so openly despised. Letalone be in a position to have access to some of the most fragile hurting men in our military. A man with his open rebellion and hostility against our government should never have been placed in such a command position or given access to our men who were suffering from mental issues. Decisions made through political correctness in our military can only lead to undermining the equality and discipline of our troops along with allowing someone who clearly had mental issues himself to have access to our troops at their most vulnerable times of life that gave him motive and opportunity to plan and execute his plan of mass murder and terrorism against our government through the killing of our troops in such an unprovoked fashion.
Our troops are lead by the Civilian authorities, That's why the president is the commander and Chief. It's appalling that he has been president for over eight months plus he has been campaigning against Pres. Bush for over a two years that he doesn't have enough information to make a decision to send more troops to defeat the enemy on his home ground rather that letting him gather his strength and get organized to mount an assault here on our home ground. I'd rather fight them over there, than fight them over here on American soil!
I smelled the stench of the death of our soldiers as their bodies were taken to the Airport in Vung Tau, Viet Nam, I remember the sight of the American Soldiers in the New York Times and Look Magazine after the Tet offensive in 1968 of the American Soldiers stacked up like cord wood in the back of an Army Personnel Carrier. I remember the Stories of the black Soldiers that had to fight to be able to join the Army and have a all black unite. The history of America is that We are all Americans, with Allegiance to America not some distant land that our ancestors were taken from or had to flee from. Our and My Allegiance is to the United States of America for which it stands. One nation indivisible, under God. with liberty and Justice for All! The question is Where is Your Allegiance? Would you fight for your Country the Way you Fight for your Son?
Finally I believe in Jesus The Christ, I can't have empathy for a Group (Muslims) that considers me to less than an insect, and has sworn to destroy me and all that I love, just because I don't believe in their Religion. How can you justify supporting a group who has vowed to destroy you because you don't share their faith? Christ died for all of us to give us the right to eternal life. I'm Glad that I don't have to die in Jihad to receive the eternal promise that God has given us. John 3:16
Rev. Carl L. Kelley
Ajabu-
Once again, you distort my "Question" to suit your own lies. Can you ever actually tell the truth??? I mean- my words were clear and I tried to make them simple as I know the audience...., and I simply refuse to let you assign another meaning to them, But DISTORT is what you do, and it's a betrayal to your country and your fellow Americans, and REAL PATRIOTS who fought proudly.
Seriously Ajabu, UNGRATEFUL AMERICAN?? You make me laugh Ajabu, you make me laugh !!!,
YOU DEFINE "UNGRATEFUL". All you do here is crap, piss your panties, and wussy moan EVERYDAY and do your hate America, Hate Bush, Hate Republicans Bull$.
You spew hate and venom, you get it back ten-fold.- then you complain about it.
Your world is what you have made of it Ajabu. Stop complaining about it. I for one am proud of my country and those who have truly paid dearly for it, those who proudly served. You have NO idea what patriotism is. You're a traitor, and YOU SPREAD LIES about your country DAILY. You betray.....
My question was: ( This is like the 10th time, you must have your head shoved into a tight dark place"?
MY question was "Why would ANYONE who "claims" to have fought for Freedom, now support the TYRANNY OF SOCIALISM, and the loss of Freedom SOCIALISM STRIPS from FREE AMERICANS???? Betrayal.....
To have fought against tyranny and to NOW Support Tyranny- now makes YOU a buffoon and a traitor. I am sure if we had more soldiers like you, the Hammer and Sickle would be flying high over Indiana, and you'd no doubt be some kind of "Party Official".
Ajabu- to help you further, here are the definitions.
How many times to I have to draw it out clearly for your dense clogged up head, it couldnt be ANYMORE SIMPLE THAN THIS.
Does this help?
buffoon [bəˈfuːn]
n
1. a person who amuses others by ridiculous or odd behaviour, jokes, etc
2. a foolish person
You got this one wrapped up.
traitor [ˈtreɪtə]
n
a person who is guilty of treason or treachery, in betraying friends, country, a cause or trust, etc.
Just read your twisted "Hate America, America is Bad" posts.
I am sure you forgot what this one means:
Liberty- Libbb---errrr--teeee.
lib·er·ty (lbr-t)
1a. The condition of being free from restriction or control.
b. The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing.
c. The condition of being physically and legally free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor. See Synonyms at freedom.
2. Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
3. A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights.
tyr·an·ny (tr-n)
n. pl. tyr·an·nies
1. A government in which a single ruler is vested with absolute power.
2. The office, authority, or jurisdiction of an absolute ruler.
3. Absolute power, especially when exercised unjustly or cruelly: "I have sworn . . . eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" (Thomas Jefferson).
Ajabu- You don't fool anyone here. You love it when I called you out. It gives you an opportunity to distort...that's what you live to do here everyday.
AND I'll CALL YOU OUT AGAIN-
WHAT did you MEAN when you said your Vet friends "know where I live"???
Ajabu- why don't you be a man and answer the question? Why did you make that statement??
Ajabu- your a lying, cowardly ass. You use this phony blog, and your phony 'Collar" to piss on the American Flag, and drive hate AT ANY COST, and WITH ANY LIE your RADICAL AGENDA will benefit from.
Ajabu- Youre a liar. You twist, you distort, YOU spread your venom and your hate in hopes you'll get a few bone$ thrown at you to "Keep on Lying". ...a whore.
Ajabu- youre a fine one to pass judgement on Patriotism. How much has YOUR HATE caused pain to our society? Our society pays a price for it EVERYDAY. Blah, Blah, Blah....
"Increase the love, decrease the hate".....Once again, You have jacked it all up pal.
Jayson
Reverend Ajabu
I think it is time to start ignoring the foolish talk and rambling nonsense of Jayson. He is obviously out of his league intellectually. I will not address his strange language that calls for translation to comprehend.
You can only bring your good name and reputation down trying to spa with this guy. Let him go! Keep your dignity before some of whatever that is he has rubs off on you.
Who was that cursing idiot with every other word an expletive who put a post on this blog? This world is going down for the conservative Republican racists in America. They are going out screaming and kicking. They are critical of people like you and me as they try to attach us to tyranny and socialism. As if virulent racist hatemongering by them is less offensive.
America does not belong to them anymore and they can't get it back. Don't get mad with every Black, White liberal, Jew, Asian, Hispanic because we run things now. Again, if you don't like America, go to Mexico, Canada, or Germany. Get the hell out!!!!
john
John,
You're really not too far from Jayson on the other side of the circle. There is so much hate in you, too. I'm sure that there is a good church somewhere nearby you that could help.
The fascists in America today are the ones who say "push a bad bill....no matter if you don't like it....no matter if you believe it is full of bad legislation...all that matters is to win." That is fascism, pure and simple. This is not about healthcare, it is about power. 57% of Americans do not like what they see and the elections are not far away. Fortunately, the hard left in this country is only 20% of the population.
Happy Veteran's Day everyone.
I recommend taking a moment to pray for our active troops and our veterans.
If you have the resources, I recommend a donation to an organization that supports our troops and veterans. Two good places include:
www.woundedwarriorproject.org
http://www.aafes.com/docs/support.htm
God Bless.
Win at all costs results in this:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124226/Republicans-Edge-Ahead-Democrats-2010-Vote.aspx
Gallup is never a very Republican friendly pollster.
If GALLUP is showing this, it's actually worse than this for democrats.
It is time to engage all sides in compromise.
Or 2010 will be a bloodbath for democrats, John.
It's as plain as the nose on your face.
The most accurate pollster, Rasmussen say's it's worse.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/generic_congressional_ballot
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Obamas-hidden-bailout-of-General-Electric_03_04-40686707.html
You need to realize that you are being manipulated for money.
Jayson, Jayson,
You poor wretched soul. Have you ever put on a military uniform for America. You talk about America's veterans and have never fought for the country. Shame on you. You are an ungrateful American. Happy veterans day.
Dawn
You are not that far from Jayson in your thought processes. I have not seen you discuss Bush and the conservatives nearly as much as you gleefully degrade liberal progressives. You still try to predict doom and gloom for the Democrats in 2010. There is no harm in dreaming and wishing but guess what, we are in control now. Anything can happen between now and 2010. Guess what, the Republicans can become more extinct in 2010. Stop predicting because you know you have been wrong almost every time. Why don't you wait for 2010 and then tell me the Democrats were decimated.
Lets examine your support for the veterans. You still want the veterans and the poor in America to rely on your donations. Why not introduce laws that will ensure the veterans needs are met with legislation. That is the difference between conservatives and liberals. We want the Americans to be able to sruvive and live well by utilizing our laws to make that happen.
That is why we need a health care bill with a strong public option to meet the needs of the uninsured. Obama has instituted laws to meet the needs of the veterans who fought for America, veterans like Reverend Ajabu and me.
Jayson is pitiful. Dawn, you are articulate but you end up not saying anything, just confusing rhetoric. Most of your statements are either predictions that are usually wrong or you are trying to be a God beside God. In many ways you are worst than Jayson.
One day you will shed the oxymoronic name, Christian Conservative. That is like putting dumb and devious togeter. They just don't mix, like oil and water.Your title explains how schizophrenic your thoughts and actions are because it is impossible to be a true Christian and a cold hearted and callous Conservative. Funny, you chose to connect Christian with Conservative. Please examine those two words closely and one day you will realize that you penned a tag on yourself that illustrates just how foolish you are.
john
John,
I told you that I thought Bush was a weak President. I believe that Bush was a weak President. He did not manage the budget, which is the job of the Executive. He did not use his position to speak to the people. That is the job of the executive. People in Indiana see a good executive in our Governor. He sets the agenda, he communicates with the people. He manages the budget. He sets priorities...in our case, education, healthcare and jobs. He gives confidence. And Indiana is one of 11 states that is emerging from the recession the fastest. He makes mistakes, he admits them and he charts a new course.
Bush did none of that. Because of the war, and Bush's unwillingness to keep a clear mission communicated to the American people on that front, people lost belief in the mission and they lost confidence in the President. People do not like to see our soldiers in harms way without a clear mission.
John McCain was a terrible candidate for President. Old, a poor communicator, no message. It was obvious that Barack Obama was going to win. I predicted that he WOULD win. I didn't WANT him to win, but I knew that he would. I have simply prayed for him and our country in the meantime, knowing that our system of government would keep us safe.
I predicted that New Jersey and Virginia would go Republican. I was wrong about NY23, but the Republicans still received the most votes, they just had a silly prideful woman attempt to assuage her foolish pride by trying to hurt the better candidate.
Conservatives have consistently done a better job for veterans, John. If you would like, I will show you the record. You're not very good at research. The military knows who is on their side. Why do you think that the military supports conservatives more heavily?
If the President would like to provide lifetime healthcare free to our veterans, he should do it. I think that our veterans hospitals should be closed and veterans should go to regular hospitals and have free care for their lives. Period. But that is not what this healthcare bill does. If you put that idea in front of any conservative I know, they would support that.
John, you are a foolish partisan. I am not a partisan. I can see when a democrat is trying to work with all of the people. I can also see when a republican is a fool. Mark Sanford should be impeached. Evan Bayh is a servant to all Hoosiers.
As long as we cannot look at the individual people in these races, we are sunk. On both sides. It isn't about "winning" and being "in control". It is about service.
And it is interesting that I have gone from "insane" to articulate. Talk about not making any sense.
Again, I will tell you...Jesus was both conservative and liberal. God created us in his image and he made us conservative/liberal and sometimes a mix of the two. He loves us all. Our natures are from him. Conservative is a nature. Conservatives plan, save, analyze. There is nothing evil in that nature. Liberals dream, feel, act on impulse. There is nothing evil in that nature, either. The two natures compliment one another.
Have a good day, John. Try not to be so bitter.
A good way to start it would be some time in the word.