FAITH, WORKS, ABORTION & MARTIN LUTHER
Faith, Works, Abortion, & Martin Luther
The recent murder of Dr. George Tiller by Scott Roeder has caused me to reflect. As far as I can tell both of these men lived their lives as they saw devout Christians should. Lindsay Perna and Tiffany Stanley writing for the Salt Lake Tribune’s Religion News Service state the following:
Dr. George Tiller’s murder last Sunday morning in the lobby of his Lutheran church counters the secular image of a late-term abortion provider, pinning him more as a churchgoing “martyr” than a godless murderer.
“It shows a dimension of the movement that a lot of people don’t know about,” said the Rev. Carlton Veazey, president of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. “This man was castigated for what he did — but he was a faithful member of the Lutheran church and that gives a different view of him and his work.”
Veazey sees the face of Tiller as more of “a martyr in the same sense that Dr. [Martin Luther] King was.”
Rev. Carlton Veazey sees Tiller as “a faithful member of the Lutheran church.” Before I unwrap this statement I want to point to how Roeder’s was viewed by his ex-wife. In a June 1, 2009 article out of Merriam, Kansas entitled; Scott Roeder’s Ex-Wife: “He Could Actually Do It” the reporter, Monica Evans quotes the wife saying the following:
Lindsey Roeder told FOX 4 on Friday Scott insisted on seeing their son, now 22. He took him to a movie, dinner and to get ice cream. The ex says it's very unusual because Roeder observes his Sabbath at sundown on Friday and always adheres to it.
Y’all walk with me while I lay this foundation because I am going somewhere with this. This word picture has got to be painted so you understand the provocative statements, I mean real provocative statements to follow. Allie Martin, a reporter for OneNews.Now reported the following:
On a recent webcast of his daily radio talk show, Wiley Drake, former second vice-president of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), called last Sunday's murder of Tiller "an answer to prayer." Then during an interview with Alan Colmes on Fox News Radio, Drake said he was praying the same type of "imprecatory prayer" against the president of the United States. (Allie Martin “OneNews.Now)
Lord help us today!! What has happened to Christians? We have a Christian doctor, George Tiller, who sees himself as a good Christian by killing babies that are almost ready to be born out of women’s wombs. We have Scott Roeder, who allegedly kills Dr. Tiller to stop him from killing babies. Mr. Roeder sees his act as an expression of his Christian faith. And then we have Rev. Wiley Drake who states that Mr. Roeder’s killing of Dr. Tiller was the answer to his “imprecatory prayer”, and he is praying the same prayer so that President Obama experiences the same fate. Imprecatory means “to call down something bad or harmful, especially a curse, on somebody.” So Rev. Drake has called down a curse on Dr. Tiller and President Obama and still considers himself, along with Dr. Tiller seeing himself, and Scott Roeder seeing himself as being Christians in good standing with God. How? In my opinion, the answer to the question goes back to the theology of Martin Luther. Are y’all ready for this?
The origin of all Christian sects other than Catholicism can be traced to Martin Luther. Luther was excommunicated from the Catholic Church in 1619. There were a number of things with which Luther took issue with Catholic operation; Catholic theology that said God held one accountable for their actions was a source of great worry for Luther. Here’s why.
Luther had a problem with women. He felt that the liberties that he took with women would cause him to have eternal life in hell. No matter how hard he tried he could not get himself to the place that he was satisfied with the life that he was living. He felt that he was unworthy and did not merit eternal life if judged by a righteous God. Then while studying the Bible he had what I learned in seminary what was called a “tower experience.” My church history professor, Mark Ellingsen, who wrote the book out of which we studied entitled “Reclaiming Our Roots”, puts it this way:
The breakthrough for Luther in his struggles came through dealing with the Book of Romans and its references (1:17; 3:5, 21-22) to the “righteousness of God.” In essence, Luther discovered that the “justice,” more properly the righteousness, of God does not refer to the punishment of sinners. ...This righteousness is a passive righteousness given to the faithful, not because they fulfill the demands of divine justice, but because God gives it to them as a free gift (Romans 3:21ff.). The faithful have been released from the spiritual burden of having to strive to achieve righteousness, for it is already theirs as a gift. ...Though sin remains, it does not count against us; thus, there is no need to despair (lectures on Romans, in Luther Works 25:258ff). (Ellingsen p. 29).
This so-called theological insight on Luther’s part allows Christians to do unrighteous stuff and still see themselves entering into the kingdom of heaven. By Luther’s theology your behavior has nothing to do with whether you are a good Christian or not. One gets eternal life by the grace of God. No matter what you do, if you have faith, then the kingdom of God is yours. You can kill babies in their mother’s womb, kill the doctor that killed the babies, and pray that someone kills the doctor and the President and still make it into the kingdom of God according to Luther’s theology. There is no punishment for sin. The Book of Romans was written by Paul of Tarsus. Howard Thurman speaks about his grandmother having issues with Paul, and she wouldn’t read his biblical writings. She felt Paul’s writings justified slavery. In fact, slave holders used Paul’s words exactly that way.
Luther because of his interpretation of Paul’s writings came up with the theological position of “predestination.” We still hear the remnants of this theology echoed in the church today. When we say it is already decided before you were born we are pronouncing Luther’s theology. This language is saying that life is predetermined. This theology is very dangerous. It allowed Europeans to go to Africa and enslave its people and still be good Christians. It allowed America to invade Iraq under false pretenses and still believe it would be able to get into the kingdom of God. Luther’s “tower experience” has caused people to feel they can do what they want in the name of God and not be held accountable by God. According to Luther, it is your faith, not your works that get you eternal life. The message is to hold on to your faith, don’t worry about your works. It is your faith that will see you through. There is nothing that you can do that will get you into heaven. Paul says that eternal life is free. Eternal life is a gift of your faith, not your works. My question is if there is nothing you can do to get you in, is there something that you can do to keep you out? James seems to think so.
The Book of James is attributed to being written by Jesus’ brother (Mt. 13:55; Mk 6:3; Gal 1:19) who became the leader of the church in Jerusalem (Gal 2:9, 12; Acts 12:17, 15:13, 21:18). Yes Jesus had brothers and some sisters too (Matthew 12:46-50). James writes the following:
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? ... So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one, you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren? Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:14-24).
James is telling us faith without works is dead. Paul is saying don’t worry about the works, just have faith. Now who is the better source to believe what Jesus would have us to do. Is the better source Paul or James. Let’s see. Paul never saw or heard Jesus in the flesh. James grew up in the same family. This, for me, is a no brainer. James should know Jesus much better than Paul. Although Paul says some good things, he must me read and analyzed very carefully. I think his Roman citizenship clouded his Jewish upbringing. Christians must be known by our works. Our works tell people the depth of our faith. Carrying out abortions, killing doctors that carry out abortions, preachers praying the someone will kill a doctor who carries out abortions and prays that someone will also kill the President is not the works of a God fearing Christian. I believe that this type of Christianity can be traced to Luther’s “tower experience.” Roeder’s works cannot be viewed as a good example of what Jesus would do, and nor can Dr. Tiller be viewed as a martyr similar to Martin Luther King. To do so is a distorted example of the lessons that Jesus taught. Let him without sin cast the first stone. If we followed this lesson then there would be no stones cast. Bishop T. Garrott Benjamin on last Sunday taught about the scripture according to you. The message is well worth putting into practice. People would much rather see a sermon than listen to one. Our faith will be known by our works. Thank you for listening to AjabuSpeaks.
Rev. Ajabu
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Dawn,
I am a product of America. Made right here. Race plays such a large role in America that it is hard not to see things through that lens. Slavery was perpetrated by people who saw themselves as good Christians. The Presbyterian Church as a denomination took offense to slavery, but did nothing to hold accountable the slave holders that attended their church every Sunday. This caused a rift in the church and in fact caused it to split. The church had faith but no works. So, when you talk about false doctrine, whose standard are you using?
When Luther rebelled against the Catholic Church I am sure they said he was professing false doctrine. In fact, history is clear, Luther was excommunicated and labeled a heretic. A heretic is someone who teaches false doctrine. Now every Christian denomination that is other than Catholic trace their heritage back to Luther. So by Catholic standards all Christion denominations other than Catholic have a heretic foundation.
If you look in your dictionary you will find that predetermined and predestination are almost synonomous. The only difference is predestination is associated with God deciding before hand, and predetermination is associated with man deciding before hand. The terms mean the same thing.
At this point we are struggling with an age old argument. Church history is replete with this argument. Luther's arch foe in this debate was Pelagian. Pelagian said Christians should be known by our faith. Luther said Christians should be known by our faith. If they had brought the two positions together we would be on to something, JAMES. Faith without works is dead. But Luther did not want to be held accountable for his works, because he couldn't beat his lust. Too many Christians want that cheap grace. In my opinion, that is where the false doctrine comes into play.
It is interesting that so many church disagreements center around Paul's words. Paul's words just leave themselves open for some very bazaar interpretation.I am not aware of this vast theological disagreement being centered around James' or any other writer's words. James had opposition, as we all do, and will continue to have. People did not want him to be over the church in Jerusalem, but his words have not lent themself to people being thrown out of the church. Luther was in essence thrown out of the church because of his understanding of Paul! Go figure.
I was just speaking to a good friend of mine. He is white, a former law professor, republican, and probably considers himself a conservative. We agree that abortion has applicability under certain circumstances, such as rape, or to save the mother's life. He raised some other interesting questions concerning the dominance of God's law as opposed to man's. The polemic is much to extensive to go into here. I hope he chimes in. God bless you Dawn. You need prayer, as do we all.
Rev Ajabu
I never thought about the non partisans. It would be possible for the party members to eliminate themselves from Congress but highly unlikely. You do have a point.
Does Dawn realize that she is not a theologian and that her absolutism in her discourse is so annoying as any reasonable observer can discern that she is a lightweight. She loves to dabbling in areas like medicine, religion, and economics where she does not have any expertise.
john
I am pleased to hear of this scholarly debating. However, from my perspective to lay at blame the ideas of Pre-destination, Grace and Faith in such a tiny box of conjecture is absurd. When I last checked God is sovereign and he did not get informed by what any of has to say about this world (God’s), God’s Son (God’s) or God’s Word (God’s). Let me see here, we figure into the scenario as the part of ALL, as in all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of ……. God.
Pre-destination contains the idea in its summation that God is all knowing. Because God is all knowing, it doesn’t mean that he fixed the life-game so that we do not have a choice. In fact, God is not trapped inside of the world, the dimension of time and space that we are in until we die. Actually God exist outside of time and space and he can call things that do not exist as though they were. God told Jeremiah that he knew him before he formed him inside of his mother’s womb (remember that).
Therefore, if the scope of the general context of this conversation were followed to a logical conclusion, it suggest that God has ordained a bunch of folk to do his bidding right here on earth. I am not sure if this kind of political grand-standing and speculation goes on in heaven. But for the sake of argument, I digress. Okay the doctor kills babies, the senators and congress-persons who will not pass laws stopping it is also guilty, as well as those who support it are guilty. Oh don’t forget, the clergy is guilty, for not protesting it. In addition the citizens of the nation where the baby killing is going on are guilty too. Oh no, I forgot, God had a representative to kill the doctor. See case solved.
Here is another scenario; in Egypt they were killing male babies when Moses was born. In Indianapolis and other cities across the nation, they are letting Black Male babies get to the age of 9 and up and they kill them too if not putting them in jail. Well no, it is not the whole nation doing it, but it is GANGS. It is the school system that is helping the gangs too, it is these poor ghetto women that are the blame too, for having so many babies and can’t take care of them. Now let us not forget that the Black Church is helping the GANGS too, for encouraging the 50% of the good African-American youth who do not drop out of school and make something good of themselves while the Black Church is doing a Richard Millhouse Nixon begin neglect of the other 50% of the Africa-American children who slip through the crack (no pun intended). When I last checked our negative culture including Tom Joyner and Russ Parr are helping the GANGS too, for purveying such smut %^^$%$#_) lyrics in the rap music played, consumed and worshipped in the Africa-America Community. (Not counting the deification of the already Africa-American personality God’s – music prostitutes and athletic Gods.) I hope you get my point, there is a act of Genocide being carried out in the African-American Community and what you all are talking is much to do about nothing and laying the conjecture at the feet of GOD. Why don’t we try spreading democracy and taking over our own community and rebuilding it and giving it religion and morals and you know like a gazillion dollars just like George and the boys did in the war of choice. First let us tear down our community so that we can build it up. I wonder did God notice that. Did you notice how our community is torn up and all we have to do is rebuild it. Could that really happen? Some of you Super Christians could start by coming out of these black mega Churches and stop donating God just a little of your time and when going into the torn up Black Community and at least spent some time there outside of your car. Let your preacher lead you and go from house to house and take over one block at a time. This is the military strategy used in urban warfare. Is it time yet?
Well enough of that pre-destination stuff, God already knows. So far he has only seen a little small minded religious – political self- righteous speech to counter the hate speech in the name of GOD. Someone please, get a life, a new life and for sure I am not talking about the NEW LIFE religious money cult. We have too many of this kind and GOD knows them too.
Reverend,
I suggest that if you are a man of God, you need to ask John Marshall to be civil in his discourse.
Ken and LuWanna, thank you for your perspectives. They certainly have given me thought. Ken, I recently left a white mega church, myself. The white mega churches are really not a lot different from the black mega churches. In their defense, there is a lot of good preaching in mega churches. Preaching is a significant gift....many pastors are not really gifted in that regard. Gifted preachers are in high demand and they tend to wind up either in megachurches or BUILDING megachurches.
But megachurches lose a sense of individual service, for sure. In the smaller church I am attending, the preaching is not as strong, but the community is MUCH stronger. I am called on more to be a part of the community. To participate. To build relationships.
Thanks also for your new words on predestination. Like you, I simply don't have difficulty in seeing my Lord as an all-knowing Lord. If he knows how many hairs are on my head, surely he can see my path before I CHOOSE it. Although, surely it is my own choosing.
LuWanna, Thanks for choosing not to eliminate the words of Paul from YOUR Bible. Certainly his words can be twisted by people who are not of goodwill. But his story, his words, his life are an inspiration. They certainly have been to my daughter, who has suffered from addiction. Surely they have been to me as a Martha, who has tried to live "under the law" to be good enough. It is a joy to live as a slave to obedience. That obedience includes study, prayer, repentence, humility (not humility toward men, but toward Christ. Humility toward false men is a sign that we care more about peoples' opinions of us than of God's opinion toward us), and YES, service. But the service that WE are called for, not the service that others will judge us by.
Blessings.
If anyone here enjoys listening to good preaching and has an IPod, I recommend pastor Mark Driscoll to you.
Ken,
Welcome to the blog. That being said, I truly don't know what point you are trying to make. But let me respond to a few statements that you made. For God to know you while you are still in the womb does not mean he has determined your life before you live it.
Now it seems like you are in support of Scott Roeder killing Dr. Tiller by your following statement:
"Oh no, I forgot, God had a representative to kill the doctor. See case solved."
So you think God sent Reder to kill Dr. Tiller? What kind of God are you serving? And Dawn are you in support of this statement? What kind of God are you serving? What kind of Christian theology is that? Is not God love? Where's the love? There appears to be something greatly amiss in your theology.
Now it seems like you are trying to say that church's can do more to make God's will exist on heaven as it does on earth. No argument. I would also say that so can you. There is enough blame to go around. It also appears that you are saying that only the Black community has problems that needs to be addressed? Is this what you meant to say? If so, I would question whether you are dealing fully with the reality in which we find ourselves.
Marshall,
I am glad you see the merit in a non-partisan race. It would really make America's political system more an act of democracy. I think it would force people to look at the candidate instead of the party. Would it make those who are all in to their particular party scramble? You bet it would. I think it is time for a scramble. There is a wind of change in the air. Let's keep the wind blowing.
Dawn,
How would Marshall say what he said and be civil? Let me try to say what he said in a civil fashion. It is clear from your responses that you are not a trained theologian. You have your beliefs, to which you are entitled, but you have not wrestled with scripture to the depths that seminarians have. You, nor Luwanna, nor Ken. It is obvious. And even though it is obvious to those of us who have, you still will speak as an authority on something that it's clear, you don't know to the depth that it is known by me. You believe, but you don't know the finer points that are raised by your belief, and the reference you use as the basis for your belief. The Bible is a very intricate document. To understand it and the church you must look at history. A prime example of your lack of knowlege is your position that there is a significant difference between predetermined and predestination. As I showed above, the only difference between these two terms is who has decided how things were going to happen before they happened. Any scholar of Christian theology readily knows this fact. Your not knowing it points to your lack of scholarship. There is no harm meant is stating this observation, it is just the fact of the situation. If you don't understand this simple fact, then it causes one to question what else you don't know. You can believe something and know nothing about it. You are entitled to your belief. To make your belief the extent of all knowlege is going over the line. What you believe is not the extent of what everyone else should believe. You and another lady that has contributed on this web are truly mis-informed who are very strong and passionate in your belief. But your belief does not dictate what others are to believe. Nor does your belief change the facts of history.
I will not go as far to say you don't have "any" expertise in the areas of medicine, and economics as John did. I can't really speak much about medicine for sure. Economics I am a bit more versed, and in Bible New Testament I consider myself an expert. If I were to make an analysis of your expertise I would venture to say you are probably an expert on Human Relations as it relates to employment. Howeve, concerning religion you are confusing your belief with intellectual discourse. Those are two different things. Now, would you say what I have said concerning you was being civil?
Truly, on my part, there is no intent to harm you or anyone else. This blog is act of intellectual exchange. There are experts in many areas who read and respond on this blog. I am better off because they do. I am anxious for your reply. God bless.
Reverend Ajabu,
I heard a great message about humility today. I think it would be a great message for you, brother. If you consider yourself an expert, it is a strong indication that you indeed, have a great deal to learn. Particularly in the area of humility.
I think you, in particular, would benefit in some really good teaching. I recommend Pastor Driscoll to you.
Reverend
You have a point about the non partisan elections that are usually local. I never thought about them. The problem will be to get elected officials who represent a political party to give up that position and power. I think we are stuck with political parties. Why not use them to our advantage, be a solid liberal Democrat and help the masses of Americans.
john
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_(Calvinism)
As we can all see, dear theologian, even the most simplistic analysis of predestination, Wikipedia, shows us that the Calvinists do NOT equate detestination with predetermination, and that good works are the fruit of a mature spirit in Christ.
Pride is a deadly sin. Humility is a virtue.